Wendago.com Forum

Full Version: Hey Wendego, quick question...
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
I know your busy, so I won't be offended if it takes you a while to respond.

First love your site. And I hope your as nice and approachable as you seem.

I did some research on you to see how you made it as a writer, and I found that you optoned some scripts before you met Dean (I believe it was). My question is, what vehicle did you use to get your scripts out there? Was it the internet, and if so, what sites did you go to submit them?

Any help or advice you could give me would be deeply appreciated. As you know it is considerably hard to break into the industry. Since you have been where I am, I was hoping you could give me some QUICK guidence.
Sorry Sir,

I meant WENDAGO not wendego.

I'm a horrible speller, please don't hold it against me.

Thank God (or whatever you believe in) for spell check.
Tennessee,

May I call you that?

When I first got my feet wet with the whole Hollywood thing, I was living in Texas. Robin, the former girlfriend of my best friend in College, was living in LA and working as an actress on a "Power Rangers" type of show. I gave her a ring and told her eventually I was heading to LA.

Through our correspondence she mentioned a producing friend of hers who had access to a Castle in Wales and they were trying to find a low budget script to shoot in said castle. She asked me if I had any ideas.

Like a moron, clearly having no idea what I was doing, I took a week and wrote a script. I bought a book with the screenplays "Pulp Fiction" and "Reservoir Dogs" to use an an example of format.

My friend liked the little script although (knowing what I know now) it was a disaster. She passed it on to her producing friend who was polite but said it would cost way too much to shoot.

Robin had gone to high school with Dean Lorey who had written "Jason Goes to Hell" and "Major Payne" as well as numerous unproduced scripts. Dean had a first look deal with Universal and had sort of set up a small production company there. Robin's roommate (who's name currently slips my mind) was working as Dean's assistant. Robin gave the script to her roommate who read it and loved it but saw that it had some structural problems. It boils down to: I simply didn't know what I didn't know.

Traci! Her name was Traci. Anyway she called me and said she wanted to give the script to Dean but she wanted to work with me on a rewrite first. Great! I was excited. As far as I was concerned she was telling me we'd start shooting it next week. It was a done deal. I and my girlfriend started spending money in our heads. So Traci talked me through some of what I didn't know about structure. I rewrote the thing under her direction and eventually we gave the Script to Dean.

He read the first 40 pages and tossed it in the can.

Knowing what I know now, it's remarkable he got that far.

His comment was that after forty pages there was still no plot. And he was right. So much for Traci's tutelage.

However, what Dean sparked to was...I guess...raw talent? He appreciated the imagination within the script. And as I sit here typing this I realize something else. I, of course, didn't know this at the time, but Dean was and still is a HUGE fan of fantasy. And this was a fantasy script. Swords, Sorcery, Dragons, all that sort of thing. So, I'm sure that played a part. As well as the fact that we are both from the south.

Talent, luck and who you know.

Getting your script to the right person at the right time...is a huge part of getting your foot in the door. I had some raw talent. I knew someone who knew someone. And I was lucky that we had so much in common that not only did we hit it off but he was willing to go out of his way to help me.

Anyway, Dean wanted to talk to me so we got on the phone and he asked what other ideas I had. I told him I was thinking about writing a Bigfoot story. He immediately commented that there was already a "Harry and the Hendersons". I told him I wasn't thinking family comedy. I was thinking dark, horror. That this wasn't the Bigfoot you catch a quick glimpse of in the woods. This is the Bigfoot who rips your head off. He liked it.

What followed was my writing an outline. Which sucked by the way. I didn't know it at the time but looking back it was embarrassingly horrid.

Dean, a master at dealing with writers (considering he was one), treated me as he always wished producers would treat him. He always stroked my ego while gently pointing me in different directions. Together (although it was mostly him), we created an outline. And in doing so I started to see and understand the basics of film script structure. Although it would be several years before it became second nature and even now, ten years later, I learn new stuff every day.

Once we had the outline Dean simply said, "Look, if this is really what you want to do, you can't do it from Texas. You have to move to LA."

So I did.

Once in LA, Dean optioned the script for 1000 dollars against 200,000 if it got made. And that's how it started. That was my first option.

Five hundred up front and five hundred when I turned it in.

Talent, luck and who you know.

I got in the door through friends I knew who were already out here. So, clearly I had an edge that most, I suppose, do not.

I assume that there are Internet sites where you may be able to display your work in hopes of getting a bite. I would guess that there are producing companies out there who will take script submissions from non-guild and non-agented writers. I just never had to play in that game. I guess I sort of bypassed it.

My advice will always be to move to LA. Don't "play" the Hollywood game necessarily, just be yourself. Make friends. I've heard the rumors that it's cutthroat out here and it is. But those politics really don't come into play until you're swimming in the deep end. For those struggles in the kiddie pool...well, I found everyone to be remarkably helpful. They want to see you make it so you can turn around and help them.

I'll admit it. I've been lucky. Stupidly lucky. Dean optioned two scripts from me. He introduced me to Sean Cunningham who I worked with for three years...who I eventually made Jason X with. Let's be honest, I was miserable most of the time while working for Sean but I was able to pay my bills for three years while I wrote every single day. You can't write every day and not get better. So, yeah, I been lucky.

I wish I could give you some number to call. I wish I could link a website that could help. I just don't know that world...even if it exists.

Your best bet...in my opinion...get out here. Get around people who are in life where you want to be. Learn from them. Make friends. Make like minded friends. Because they guys in the trenches will know some tricks that I never learned. Learn from them. It's a numbers game. Don't get discouraged. Just keep writing and keep throwing the mud against the wall until something sticks.

Hope some of this is helpful.

tf
Mr. Farmer,

I believe you are the nicest person I've met in the entertainment industry. I REALLY, REALLY appreciate you taking time out to help someone you don't even know.

And when I went to L.A, TENNESSE, was my nickname. So of course it's cool to call me that.

I too have a shaved head and go-t, plus I dip. So people there saw me coming a mile away.

I spent three years there until I had to leave because I got two d.u.i's trying to "NETWORK" as they called it; which I sucked at because A: I'm not a big a$$ kisser, and B: Trying to make friends with someone that could help your career just felt wrong. Even if they were a cool person, I still felt like a user.

But you are 100% right about talent, luck and who you know.

Sorry, I'm rambling. My next question you can address at your own convienance. It doesn't have to be timely. But, is there someone you know that broke in without being well connected or having conections (such as yourself) from the start?

If you can remember, did they hang out at hotspots and meet people like I did? Or answer a bunch of ads for production office work?

I mean, without being annoying (which I REALLY hope I'm not being) if you were to go to L.A when you did, without any connections and knowing what you know now; how do you think you would go about breaking in?

And finally, I think the last question should be more fun. I'm on my eleventh screenplay, and even though I've been advised against it, I'm trying to make a screenplay in each genre. So if I get the famous call and they ask "but do you have something more like Jason X" I can whip it out.

Anyway, I'm currently on horror/sci-fi in the mold of Aliens or Jason X and my question is this. After you introduce your creature and the killings begin, how do you fill the space between that and the end of act two when they THINK they've found a way to kill it. Because just one mindless death after another just seems....well....mindless!

I've thought about using my old tricks, like introducing a romance that unfolds along the way or two bitter enemy's that have to make up and work together; but when the creature is unstopable (like Jason for example) the only thing that works is running and that also leaves no time for love.

Having to write about an unstopable force hunting people down in an inclosed fixture is very tough and I admire you for pulling it off.

Any help again, would be greatly appreciated and mabye I could return the favor some day.

Thanks for listening --
Jesse "Tennesse" Dean
Tennessee,

Sorry to hear your LA experience was met with some struggles. But you'd be surprised at how many industry DUI's there are out here. But that's not condoning it. Shame on you.

I was never a fan of the whole "networking" thing. And you are right, don't go making friends for the purpose of using them later. I don't kiss butt either, however, that has actually been a plus for me. There are those out here who find being "real" a bonus. And the Southern twang has set me apart so I've embraced it.

Sadly, I really don't know any over night successes. Dean Lorey got his foot in the door by working for Sean as I did. Kurt Wimmer paid his dues in the trenches before selling a spec. John Jarrell put in something like ten years in the trenches. Kevin Williamson, Jonathan Hensleigh, everyone I know paid their dues in one way or anther by working grunt jobs before actually making it.

If I didn't know anyone and had to do it all over again, I'd come out, find a grunt job (preferably one in the industry - even if it was sweeping floors) and I'd write in my spare time. Then I would listen for opportunity and hope.

I'm guessing that's not what you want to hear but that's how it worked for me and the guys I hang with.

As for Second Act structure...well...I essentially used the Aliens structure for Jason X. If you play both movies side by side you'll see the same beats.

The Marines go in and are wiped out by Aliens.
The Grunts go in and are wiped out by Jason.

Ripley and team decide to escape on the shuttle but the shuttle crashes.
Rowan and team decide to escape on the shuttle but the shuttle explodes.

And as you neared the second act, I decided to do a false ending. They come up with a plan to kill Jason...by tweaking KM...by turning her into a killing machine. This never worked as written nor intended. Partly due to leaking Uber-Jason's existence on the net. Partly due to the simple fact that it just wasn't put on film in the best manner.

But...KM's blowing Jason to crap should have felt like the end of the movie. The audience should have been sitting there waiting on the credits then Ubah Jason arrives.

And if you think about it...Ubah Jason is roughly the same beat as introducing the Alien Queen. Gotta give Cameron props where they are due.

But at the end of the day, Aliens is attempting to make the heroes more active. They come up with plans and those plans are defeated. This goes on and on. And that's much better than your heroes running and dying, running and dying.

At least for the Aliens structure.

And this depends on "when" you reveal the truth to your heroes. In most F13s, Halloweens, etc., your heroes run around blindly as their friends disappear. Only near the end does the hot chick stumble across dead body after dead body to learn the truth.

In Aliens and JX your heroes learn right off the bat that they are being hunted. So they sort of demand to be more active as a result.

But the second act is all action/reaction. Your heroes come up with a plan. The bad guy defeats that plan. Your heroes must come up with a plan B. And so on and so forth.

Hope that made some sense as I'm a little pressed for time today.

be safe,
tf
Hey Wendago,
First, I don't want you to feel like I'm pressuring you to reply quickly. I'm a twenty-three year old man that's a sponge for knowledge. So I'll always have questions. Whatever you can help me with is deeply appreciated, but I don't want to overwelm you. So write back just whenever you get a free second; I totally understand.

I thank you for the career advice and your right. It's not what I WANTED to hear, but it was what I NEEDED to hear. I don't have the "who you know" part, so things are going to be significantly harder. But whinning about it and praying that someone is going to give the solution to me is not going to get me there. So thank you for that.

So all I can do right now is try to wow potential readers with an amazing script.

So my question is, do you know any inside info that you'd be willing to share? Things like; what genre or style their looking for right now.

--What looks impressive to readers, that might stand out above the rest? For example I'm pretty good at character development; evolving multiple characters and their relationships with each other. But mabye the industry cares more about intricle plots and/or original themes.

--Do they like twists or should I stay pretty simple, since I'm an unknown? For instance, you know I'm writing a horror very similar in design to your own; but I've thought about a massive twist. Basicly finding out, the creature wasn't what it seemed. But, I'm afraid it's to complicated and unorthadox.

And finally, I always like to leave with something a little less taxing. You mentioned that they filmed JX a little different than you invisioned it. How much power, if any, do you have after your sceenplay is purchased? I'm aware that it's inevitably up to the producers and director. But do they consult with you at all? Can you make suggestions? I notice you were able to write your self a part; (you looked pretty tough bro) but is it easy to do things like that?

Thanks again for your help in mentoring me, if not but for a few posts; it's still very, very appreciated!

Tennesse--
As for the quick responses...I'm swamped right now. Normally I wouldn't even look at the website when busy like this but with so much work writing the change of topic has been a needed escape. I won't always be so quick. Smile

As for what Hollywood is looking for...there really is no way to gage that other than look at the movies that are hot at the moment. Execs will tend to repeat themselves depending on what's currently big at the box office.

Over the last year or so, Horror has been big. And for the most part it's still the cheapest genre. Although there are A List writers working in horror these days it is still the easiest genre to break in to. There are dozens of companies out there looking for simple, low budget horror. Five to ten million.

I'm not sure anything really "stands out". Each reader is different with different tastes and likes. It's a crap shoot really.

Just read as many scripts as you can get your hands on. There are no rules but there are...standards or cliches that readers will look for. Perhaps not look for but if the elements are missing then they may dump the script.

You want your plot to be clear by page ten. You want the reader to know what kind of movie and what the goal is early on. You can certainly change that goal later but there needs to be a clear direction written out by at page 10 at the latest 15.

As long as you have the basics down then everything else is bonus. Everything else is what sets you out from the pack.

Character development is great. Execs and readers love that stuff.

I tend to shine in dialog (which is a shame considering nearly all of my dialog was rewritten after I left the JX shoot). And I'm pretty smart with action. So you use what you are good at to your advantage. If you are good at Character Development then never shy away from it.

How much power does the writer have once the screenplay is purchased?

None.

JX was a little unique for a couple of reasons. One, I'd worked for Cunningham for 3 years...so we did have a relationship. I'd also known the director for a number of years. Since I was paid such small money, Sean had always agreed to give me full access to the set and how things worked. This is not normally the case. So I was very hands-on during JX. However, after week two of the production, I flew back to LA and the script started undergoing massive dialog rewrites.

And as bad as that may seem, I was still way more involved on JX than I have been on any other script I've written.

Apparently "Scarecrow" is shooting now...or will be any day now. But I have no info. No one is calling me. No one is keeping me in the loop.

I wrote the original for Revolution Studios.

I walked into a meeting to get notes on the first draft and was introduced to the director. I had not been informed that a director was being hired. I was not a part of the decision to choose him.

Working closely with the director, I wrote the contracted rewrite for them.

Then I was replaced. The director, who oddly enough I grew close too, is the one who informed me. Had he not done that the studio wouldn't have told me. I would have learned about it in the trades.

Stuart Beatty (Collateral) was brought in. He did a rewrite. Again, information I found out from the director (as we were becoming friends).

Stuart turned in his draft. I read it. But only because the director emailed me a copy. The studio would have never done this and most likely would have frowned on my even seeing the thing. But the script was pretty good. Stuart is a good writer. But I didn't like the notes he had been given to act upon. A lesser writer would have failed miserably.

Revolution read the latest draft and decided not to make the movie. The director was let go and the script went into Turn-Around. This means, they shop it to other studios. They tabulate their costs and that's what another studio would have to pay to take the project over. Due to the high costs, Turn-Arounds rarely get bought and rarely get made.

However, Senator working with Sam Raimi's Ghost House picked the script up in Turn-Around a year later.

Thus, once I turned in my second draft, I heard nothing from the studio. My involvement was over. All of the above information I gathered from either the director or my agent...or the trades.

The Pang Brothers (The Eye) were hired to direct. I got this info from the Hollywood Reporter.

Later, from the previous director, I heard that the Pangs were doing their own rewrite.

Later still, from a producer friend I was working with on another project, I heard that the Pang Draft was sort of "out there" and tossed out. Mark Wheaton (whose credits I'm not familiar with) was brought in to pow-wow on what to do. Wheaton told my producer friend (being unaware that the producer and I were friends) that of all the drafts he told Ghost House that the they've had the perfect script all along, the original. Thus the other drafts were thrown out and his rewrite was based on mine.

Now, this means next to nothing. No one from the production called me, this got me no brownie points. The rewrite proceeded and Wheaton has since done at least one production rewrite. And from what my producer friend told me, the film starts shooting any day now if it hasn't already.

And this is the norm. Once you have sold the script...or once you have turned in your final draft...you are out.

At some point I will "hear" that the movie has actually started shooting or I will read it in the trades. At some point I will get a letter concerning the arbitration. Basically the producers will turn in to the guild, "Who they think should get the credit". I wrote the original, Stuart did a draft, the Pangs did a draft and now Wheaton. If it's true that both Stuart's and the Pang scrips were toss then I'm guessing the Producers may request that Wheaton and I share the credit. But no reason to speculate until I get the official letter.

At that point, any of the four writing entities will have the option to arbitrate for the credit.

But it's a big deal either way. If I have to share the credit then I lose half of my back end. I will also split residuals depending on how many of the other four entities end up being attached.

Best case scenario, Wheaton did, in fact, do a polish of my original draft. A polish which consisted of his changing less than 50 percent of that original. If that's the case I will end up with sole credit. If he changed more than fifty percent then I'll share the credit with him.

Worst case scenario: His draft was a mixture was based on the Pang's "Out There" draft. Leaving the end result so far removed from the original that I only get "Story By".

As the original writer you can never get less than "Story By"...that much is guaranteed. This happened to Stuart on "Pirates of the Caribbean". He wrote the original, but it changed so much over the years that he only got "Story by".

More info than you asked for but this stuff sort of writes itself.

As for writing myself a part...never happens. Well rarely happens. When the original director signed on to Scarecrow and while Stuart was doing his draft, the director talked about casting Stuart and I in small cameos. And it would have happened because this is a director decision. And JX was a similar situation.

In those rare instances when the writer does remain close to those actually making the film then your input and possibilities are more open. But this is rarely the case.

You sure this is what you want to do for a living? Smile

Because, there is and will always be a quiet dislike of the writer. Directors don't normally want the writer looking over their shoulder. Producers and Executives tend to be resentful of the writers. We are the only ones who create something from nothing. We start the whole process. In an attempt to feel important, everyone with a fart canal will start changing the script to add their two cents. And they can because everyone has more power than the writer.

There are producers and Execs out there who can and will make a script and story better. But for the most part, the majority is just trying to feel important and as a result the script will change for egotistical reasons rather than story improvements.

Welcome to Hollywood.
You can't see me, but I'm laughing hysterically at your last paragraph.

You sumed up my entire hollywood experiance in just a couple of sentances. I did some shorts for a few independent producers. It was like talking football to a cheerleader. They think they know because they view themselfs a part of it, but in the end they still don't know the difference between weak side or Mike line backers.

As far as my career as a writer? I wish every night before I go to sleep, that I could stop writing and move on with my life. But in the mourning, somehow I still manage to find myself writing. I have five black books filled with ideas and ten screenplays going on eleven.

If there is a pill you can take to stop, please, PLEASE let me know. Or considering that realisticly I'll never make it, you could just shoot me and put this dog out of his misery. LoL Smile

Sorry, I'll refrain from venting my frustration on your site.

On to better news -- I looked SCARECROW up on imdb and it has Stuart Beattie as a screenplay credit and it has you as both screenplay and story by. No body else is listed. So hopefully that's some good news for you. It's slated for release in 2006.

Now on to my question. How much "TYPICALY" is the difference in pay between: story by or screenplay credit? I now residuals and back end varies. And I think I read somewhere that the WGA's lowest allowed deal for a spec is 60 g's. I'm not prying into your personal buisness, we're just talking in general. What will I be expecting if I can get a script sold?

Next question is my creature doesn't wake up until page twenty, but it is introduced on page nine. The men's goal is to find a relic and that is made clear before page nine, but is it okay that the actual SURVIVAL plot takes place so late?

And by the way, you info is always great. I don't want you to think your boring me by "persumably" over explaining something. Anything you have to say, I want to know it. I was taught at a young age that you can never be over prepared.

Plus, I'll be frank with you. I have no life outside writing since I've came back to TN. I can't drink because of this alcahol program and I don't know about your hometown but that's all there is to do in mine. There's no football on and I don't dig the Lady Vols. So if you want to talk about the Earth rotating, I'll listen.

I just hope I'm not distracting you from your work.

Thanks for listening--
Tennesse
I meant no disrespect to any cheerleaders, or Women's basketball fans in my last post.

I apologize to anyone who might be offended. It was not my intention.

Tennesse--
Reference URL's